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Why are Americans so scared of communism and communists even though they seem to have no idea what it means?

Wouldn't it make more sense if they used words which they understood?

communism

society

understand

tynamite

I find it interesting how the person who asked this question has lived in China. That's okay we won't judge you. If you've spent all your life in a box, you'll have no idea that the box exists. In your head, communism is good right? You think everyone is equal. The box is all you know. It's not your fault that you don't know any better. I am outside the box. Now I'll explain to you my answer in open the box speak.

This democratic system (of America) is not run by elites or the borgouise.
This is wrong.
I am going to explain something to you.
Everything in this capitalist society (in America) is run like a pyramid
You go to work as a cleaner, there are many cleaners, less supervisors, and less managers, and 1 boss.
As you go up the pyramid, the money becomes higher and the amount of people becomes less.
I can illustrate this concept with an image.

capitalist pyramid

With a pyramid capitalist system, everyone has their role, so everyone pays a crucial part towards everyone benefiting. In this system,

Let's compare this to a communist system where there is no pyramid and 1 person divides up the wealth as they wish. This is much like the UK before the parliament got created. Kings and Queens could make the law up as they wish.

dog wanting to eat kids food

The little boy and girl in the picture are communists as they own the food and they get to say how much is shared out to the dog. In a capitalist society, the dog would have worked for his food rather than to have all the food seized under the kids's control and shared how they feel to please.

Also note that communism is strongly linked to there being no democracy as 1 person holds all the power, all the cards and others have little say.

You live in a system of the 2nd image. Us people answering the question live in the system of the 1st image. You are inside the box. We are outside the box. Because we are outside the box, we can see what you are missing. I would rather work for my food, than to have no control over whether I get it or not, and how much of it I get.

What cost does communism come as?

A main thing that communism does is to make sure that everyone is paid the same amount. This can seem like a good thing, but there are implications that this causes. Communism comes at a cost that is a detriment to people.

Under a communist system, there isn’t really an incentive to do a skilled
jobs. The good thing is that communism is an exceptional way of making people equal in society, and that it gives people the jobs that they want to do; but that comes at a price, the ability to be rich or run a business and have some control over what goes on in the country, because under communism there is no democracy.

To expand on this, there is no real incentive for people to become doctors. Why should anyone study 6 years of medical school after getting a degree to become a doctor, if they'll be paid around the same amount of a cleaner? People also can't setup their own business, as the government would own all the businesses. If it happens that you do run a business like in China, then how you operate your business would be very restricted. If you got too powerful, you should be curbed unfairly.

Caplitalist societies reward people for their hard work, whereas communist societies stop people from getting rich. There’s a reason why the UK
and US countries have companies like Microsoft, Phzer and GlaxoSmithKline (drugs companies); and there’s a reason why China and Iran’s economy is based on fraudulent or prohibited practises, such as mafia drugs or counterfeit goods.

I can’t see Chinese pharmaceutical or computer science companies in a country where patents are nonexistent. Those countries work by reducing competition by protecting companies from threats. Have you ever seen Apple or Pepsi ask their government to protect them from their more successful rival companies? That's what happens in China.

Communist societies do not reward people for their hard work. If communism makes you equal, what cost does it come at?

tynamite

Deleted user

Sadly, "Under a communist system, there isn’t really an incentive to do a skilled jobs." is a BS that was given to you by a person who actually never lived in the socialist society. There is an incentive for skilled jobs — but the USA born people generally can not understand how "this is an interesting job!" or "this job is fun to do!" or "by doing this job, I will be helping a crapload of people!" can be a motivation. But, for Soviet people, it oftentimes was, as it was for me. I did not get into software because I wanted to make obscene money — hell, when I did, computers took whole rooms and nobody knew it will be the next big thing. I did because teaching the machine to do things was interesting and fun. And I'm simply fortunate that it now makes me huge bucks.

tynamite

Me

I can imagine in your case, you had your incentive. But there's a reason why capitalist societies have made more advances in healthcare and technology. They inspire people to create. I've spoken to 4 people from Romania, and they share my viewpoint and dislike Communism.

tynamite

Chinese man

China is not flat; it is a pyramid just like the US and UK. In fact, the economic system is more capitalist than the UK because if you don't work, you will not get any kind of welfare support and there is no NHS. If you get sick, you go to the hospital and pay for your care in cash. If you don't, you won't get care. China now has the second largest economy in the world, so the argument that there is no incentive to work is plainly wrong.

The only thing which is socialist about China now is that it is ruled by the Chinese Communist Party. But in practice and on the economic level, the society is not communist or socialist. On the political level, it does not permit any opposition, but this has nothing to do with communism; this is authoritarianism.

tynamite

Me

I am aware that in China you can run your own business. I am also aware that it is prosperous. What China will not let you do, is get rich, or compete with them. There is no such thing as the free market. If you come up with a business that threatens theirs, you will be shut down.

You can never get rich of your own accord. You can only get rich if they let you.

Real capitalist societies have the public and private sector competing healthily, and they allow them to wane, once their market is disrupted.

Capitalism is something that is applied from the top to the bottom of the pyramid, and from the bottom to the top. What you have is faux-capitalism. It's not the same. It's bereaucratic.

tynamite

Chinese man

In the US, UK and many other parts of the world, there is an "occupy" movement which claims that what is happening in their countries is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. I would argue that China and the west are a lot alike, and they are both variations on the crony capitalism to one degree or another.

tynamite

Me

You are mistaken.
The Occupy Wall Street protest happened because educated people are finding it hard to get a job.
It is not because they hate capitalism.

It is very easy for you to sit there, look at the worldwide Occupy protests, and blame that on capitalism. That is a very narrow minded view to have. Those are the viewpoints that stem from propaganda and/or ignorance. I am aware that China is spreading propaganda about Occupy Wall Street, to stigmatise capitalism.

Capitalism is not the problem. The people protesting are not advocating for communism. I can start a Reddit thread for you asking Is communism a good solution for the OWS protesters? and they will say no.

Are you aware of Amy Winehouse's death? She allegedly died of a drug overdose. Guess what the Muslims Against Crusades did? They blamed her death on capitalism.

Here is a quote from the article.
=======
Unfortunately, with all this we find that the only (female) role models that Britain has to offer its next generation are drug addicts, alcoholics and mentally perturbed individuals; how pitiful is it that in the 21st century the most celebrated women are those who are the most troubled and exploited.
========

The MAC wants to implement Islamic law into the UK, and have affiliations with Islam4UK.

Your line of thinking is like the MAC. If Amy Winehouse dies of drug overdoses and Occupy people protest, then capitalism is flawed. I have never once stated capitalism as being flawed in this whole discussion. I have never once said that it was rubbish.

tynamite

Chinese man

I never said capitalism is bad; I said crony capitalism. Can you read?

tynamite

Me

Oh sorry for that.

tynamite

Chinese man

There is a world of difference between Communism in Romania under Ceaucescu, who was overthrown and killed in 1989, and what is operating in China now. Aside from the word Communist, they have nothing in common.

tynamite

Me

I am aware that there are people who support communism (you), do not associate corrupt countries as communism (you), as some countires don't make an attempt to make people equal. I am fully aware of this. The fact that you made this comment signifies that you do not understand me at all.

In the answer I gave, I never once called communism a corrupt system, I never once said that it exploited people. It is up for the countries how much they want to enforce real communism, and I never once gave examples of corrupt countries in my answer. You do not understand me at all.

What I was trying to do with my answer, is give you an insightful reason why people prefer capitalism, even though it makes them less equal. I would never use corrupt and stratified countries in my answer, as that wouldn't help you understand.

I only mentioned Romania to further explain why capitalism gives people more incentive to work than communism does. In Romania everyone got paid the same amount, and had to live in the same sized house. I asked what the incentive was to become a doctor was, instead of a cleaner, as they require years of training. I was told that doctors got paid slightly more than normal people.

I was making a point that capitalism incentivises people to become educated, setup a business, and invent things, whereas communism doesn't really do that. Romania being corrupt or not really is outside the scope of this question or comment section. That was not relevant.

tynamite

Deleted user

P.S. It is so much easier for "it's a fun job!" to be a motivation when you do not have to worry every day, "Will I have a job tomorrow?" because USSR's socialism was pretty much guaranteeing that you will. So you didn't have to worry about suddenly getting sick, or how to survive, and could concentrate on actually doing the job. Of course, there were people abusing that system and not really doing their job, but hey, which society doesn't have leechers?

tynamite

Me

That's true. Capitalism does make it much easier to get a job and not worry about money. You're right about that. I did mention that in my answer. I said it's easier to get a job in a communist society.

tynamite

Deleted user

Also, please please please do not confuse socialism and communism. 'Communism' as the form of society does not exist anywhere on the globe, period. What you call "communist countries" are countries that are proponents of of communist ideology but they are not actually practicing communism -- socialsm at best. See my reply on this question page.

tynamite

Me

I did not in any way, confuse communism and socialism in my answer. I did not state in my answer that communism is a corrupt system. I did not say it was a bad system. All I did is objectively compare them. I would never slate communism in my answer, as that would not help the OP to get an answer to his question.

What I tried to do is show capitalism in a new light to the OP, in a way that he would have never seen it in. I wanted to intelligently show him where I (and most of Americans) are coming from, without screaming corruption.

tynamite

Deleted user

You did. You keep using the word, "communism", even though, again, "communism" as form of society does not exist anywhere on the globe. Communist ideology does exist, as does socialist society. But communist society does not, period. If you need explanation why I say so, read Marx on what communist society actually is, and realize that none of existent societies match the definition.

tynamite

Me

I did? I did what?

I never once stated that communist society was a bad system.
I never once stated that communist society was a corrupt system.
If you want to know my opinion on things, it is only written in italics.
I gave you an objective answer, free of bias.

My answer was referring to communist society, not communist ideology. If you do not understand that, then you do not understand my answer at all.

When I mentioned Iran and China in my answer, I was saying that because their patent system is nonexistant, you can't have Microsoft or Phzer rivals setting up in their countries. I was still talking about communist societies! In a true communist society, intelligent people wouldn't be allowed to make millions off their inventions. I never once mentioned communist ideology, even with examples. You do not truly understand my answer!

You do not understand me at all.

tynamite

Me

Again. Communist societies do. not. exist. Never existed. That's your problem. What you call "communist societies" (of China, etc.) are not communist societies, they are socialist at best. So talking of them the way you do is pretty much "if there was life on Mars, it would be evil and hate its own people".

tynamite

The previous reply was from a deleted user. I made a mistake.

Me

My answer is referring to communist societies and not socialism. My answer is referring to pure communism itself, and not an existing country.

tynamite

Deleted user

Then your answer is pure speculation and not based on any facts. Okay.

tynamite

Me

Is the 1st paragraph where it says "This democratic system" based on facts?

tynamite

Me

My answer is pure speculation and not based on any facts? Are you serious? This deserves a new thread in itself.

tynamite

Deleted user

Your words: "My answer is referring to pure communism itself, and not an existing country." How can you provide facts about something that does not exist in the first place?

tynamite

Me

There is a concept of capitalism, and there is a concept of communism. Not concrete, but concepts. Just because something doesn't exist, doesn't mean I can't talk about it.

My answer talks about the concept of communism itself, and not its distorted concrete fabrication.

tynamite

Deleted user

Then you should be careful and add "I believe that..." to every paragraph, not state it matter-of-factly as you did.

tynamite

So to clarify, you believe that my answer is not talking about any facts. I will now break my answer down paragraph by paragraph, to show you different.

Paragraph 1

Capitalist societies are run like a pyramid. As you move up the pyramid, there are less people on your level, and your wage increases.

Paragraph 2

Communist societies have no pyramid and instead have one person dividing up the wealth as they wish, but equally.

tynamite

Paragraph 3

In a capitalist society, the dog would have worked for his food rather than to have all the food seized under the kids's control and shared how they feel to please.

That was half of my answer. Are you happy with everything I've posted in this comment?

tynamite

Deleted user

You are wrong right there in paragraph 1: "have one person dividing up the wealth as they wish". That's not what we were told: "[In the ideal communism society] there will be so much wealth that there's no need to divide it, and hence the need to hoard it. You need a TV? You go to the store (as in, depot) and just grab the TV off the shelf. You need a car? Go to the (store) parking lot and grab one."

tynamite

Me

Hmm interesting.
Sadly the real world has finite resources, so it is not possible for everything to be free in this world. I can imagine everyone having a free tv, but I cannot imagine everyone having free water, electricity and food.

tynamite

Deleted user

Now you see why I keep saying that "ideal communism" can not exist. Back then (in late XIX century,) the humankind was much smaller and the belief was that the world has enough resources for all. That unfounded belief pretty much got carried over well into the second part of XX century. As of "who will manufacture all these free TVs?" the answer was "robots!" and "who will design them?" — "the handful of people who are way too bored to watch them". (I am one of such people BTW, as I mentioned — even in the absence of monetary incentives I would rather design stuff because its fun, rather than sit on my behind and do nothing, because it's boring).

tynamite

Me

Is the 1st paragraph where it says "This democratic system" based on facts?

tynamite

Me

If such idealistic communist societies had welfare, the it would be possible for people to have electricity, food and water. Of course people on welfare can't just go out and buy whatever food they want, but they can eat.

If welfare was implemented, the ideal communist society would exist. It just wouldn't let you take what you want, as you were told.

tynamite

What you described is the ideal socialist society. That's the difference between (both ideal) socialism and communism: Ideal socialism: "society will make sure you will not die of hunger or illness; work as much as you can; you can have as much as you earned." Ideal communism: "we will make sure you will not die of hunger or ilness; work as much as you can and want; you can have as much as you want."

You see, this is the source of everybody's surprise: How can you Americans dislike the idea of (presently nonexistent) society where you work as little as you want but get as much stuff as you want??? Isn't that precisely what "top 1%" have in USA right now??? (And the answer it's obvious: you have a gross misconception of what "ideal communism" is.)

tynamite

Me

So do you agree that within communism, you can both get as much stuff as you want, and still be paid the same wage?

tynamite

Deleted user

Um, if you get everything, I mean everything for free, what do you need money for??? Line up your walls??? That's the whole point of "ideal communism": money will cease to exist because there will be no difference from what you may get from the store and what I may get from the store (even though I'm working a lot and you don't).

tynamite

Me

But I could use your same idealistic concept to say that capitalism doesn't exist. I could say that because degrees don't guarantee people a graduate job, that capitalism doesn't truly exist.

The fact of the matter is that we have to work within the restrictions of the natural resources that we have. So if not every graduate can get a graduate job, we still have to call it capitalism as it is the best capitalism that we have. If not every person can get unlimited free stuff in a communist society, we still have to call it communist, because it is the best communism that we have.

Capitalism isn't perfect, because not everyone can be at the top. Communism isn't perfect, because not everyone can get their desired items. However it would be extreme to then say that capitalism and communism doesn't exist because of this, because it does.

tynamite

Deleted user

Again, what exists(ed?) is/was much much closer to socialism than communism. I don't call capitalism feudalism, why do you insist on calling socialism communism?

tynamite

Me

Because socialism is as communist as we can realistically get in this society, so it's safe to call it communism. I'm not going to stop using a word just because we can't all get free unlimited stuff.

I still believe in capitalism, even though that's flawed where I live now in the UK. I'm not going to say socialist-capitalism. I still advocate capitalism.

tynamite

Deleted user

Please note that the only thing I'm advocating is calling blue, blue and red, red — not purple. "True communism" can not exist, period, due to limited resources, as you noticed (and many other reasons too), so it would be stupid to advocate it, you know — like, "Why nobody is riding unicorns? They are fun and nature friendly way to move around!". But it is a nice dream, like fairly tale, isn't it?

tynamite

Me

Yes. True capitalism cannot exist either, as not everyone who is educated can be rich.

You have to take the good with the bad.

tynamite

Deleted user

Please search for "observer's bias" on the question page and read that paragraph.

tynamite

Comment deleted

tynamite

Me

I am not going to compare capitalism, with something idealistic and unfeasible. To ask why people don't prefer impossible perfection to possible imperfection is a moot point. I will only talk about what is possible, and not the fantasy communism of which you speak of.